Check after OB

[coreyradloff]

Question about checking a disc in after it goes out of bounds:

If a disc goes out of bounds on a turnover and someone on the sideline places it at the spot it went out or gives it to the offensive player walking to pick it up, then does the offensive player make an "offensive self-check" to put the disc back in play, or does s/he have to wait for the defender setting up the mark to check the disc in?

As an example, the disc flies out of bounds and is clearly going to go some distance away from the field. A player on the sideline catches it and then, at the point where the disc went out, gives it to the handler who was going to pick it up. The nearest defender is several yards away. Does the handler make a self-check to put the disc back in play or must he wait for a defender to set up the mark and check it in? Is there a section of the rules that outlines this situation? I have a teammate who insists the offensive player must wait for the defender to check it in, but I don't see a depiction of this scenario in the rules.

Thanks in advance for any help...

[stephenghubbard]

First of all, we need to clarify some terminology*.

After an out-of-bounds turn over, the disc is LIVE and is to be put into play some place other than where it came to rest (it came to rest out of bounds, you are putting it INTO PLAY at the sideline). In order to put a LIVE disc into play you must touch it to the ground after setting a pivot at the right spot. This is not a "CHECK" or an "OFFENSIVE SELF-CHECK"; those are for when the disc is DEAD. Our situation calls for a "Ground Tap" or a "Ground Touch" as specified in II.R.2.

The added complexity of some other person getting the disc from where it landed and giving it to the handler comes from 2 very small line in the rules (only one which I can find now).
--The first is VIII.B.8 which says that the PLAYER that takes possession (holding a disc) of an OB pull must be the one to put it into play... the thing is, PLAYER is defined as one of the 14 on the field for any given point so if a sideline player or spectator "takes possession" of the disc far away from the field he is not a PLAYER and there is no description of anything different happening because of it.
--The second line (that I can't find) right now (so perhaps it doesn't exists but I think it does) is something to the effect of "the thrower must walk the disc to the place it is to be put into play" it it COULD be inturpreted to mean it is against the rules for anyone to aid the handler in getting an OB disc... but even then, there is no explanation that this breaking of the (hypothetical) rule makes the disc dead or requires a CHECK.


SOOOO... in conclusion, in the situation you describe, there is no need for a CHECK of any sort, you are only required to set a pivot at the right spot and then tap the disc to the ground.


*It takes a little time, but studying Article II of the rules (Definitions) and being sure to use the right terminology when talking about the game is very helpful to clearing up questions about what the rules call for. Much to my ire (and to everyone's confusion) though, the "Ground Touch" or "Ground Tap" does not have a definition in II.

The first thing I am going do if elected to the USAU BoDs is to insist that "Ground Tap" be defined in the definition section of the 12th Edition of the Rules.


_____________________
Candidate for USA Ultimate Board of Directors

[colinmci]

Mirroring Stephen's comments, but shorter (maybe):

1) If the disc lands O.B. and you are walking it back in-bounds to put it into play, the disc is live (II.R.2). This is not a check (VIII.D) situation. There is no stoppage (II.S) and no requirement of defensive acknowledgment of readiness. It says clearly in three times in the rules that the thrower must touch the disc to the ground (not a check):

II.R.2 (state of the disc definition)
IX.H (In and out of bounds)
XIII.B (Thrower)

In my view, players who read the rules should understand this. However, I am very involved in (and in favor of) providing additional resources to help players better understand the rules (whether they read them carefully or not). This board is one example.

2) If a non-player touches the O.B. disc and hands it to the Offense or tosses it somewhere, the rules do not really address it and there is not any strong interpretation of the rules requiring a check. At the same time, the rules do not condone sideline interference or assistance. Common Practice and the proper way to play, as I understand it, is as follows:

a) there is no stoppage if the disc touches a non-player or if someone helps retrieve a disc, BUT
b) non-players should not actively interfere with an O.B. disc in an attempt to catch the defense off-guard with an unusually quick retrieval.

The SRC has already discussed this issue and intends to propose some clarifications in the next edition of the rules.

-Colin

[haleultimate]

This is from the WFDF rules that specifically take into account non-players:

11.9. If the disc is out-of-bounds and more than three (3) metres from the pivot point, nonplayers
may retrieve the disc. The thrower must carry the disc the last three (3) metres
to the playing field.

Until it gets clarification this is the rule I play under. [I like the rule, but from a purely selfish perspective I would rather not have non-players involved since I love the out-of-bounds roller as a pull in windy conditions.]